Wednesday, January 24, 2007

David Matas and David Kilgour

A reader responded to a post regarding David Kilgour and David Matas. The crux of my post had to do with the Chinese activities against the U.S. The reader did not respond to the theme but rather only took issue with a well covered report by Kilgour and Matas regarding organ harvesting.

In his/her rebuttal the writer notes the report has been rebuked by undercover investigations by the US State Department and Harry Wu and provided links which, in essence, illustrated a lack of understanding.... both to the post and to the report. Although I appreciate the response, I'm afraid the argument was and is groundless.

The U.S. State Department did not conduct an undercover investigation. They asked to see a hospital and, I suspect, gave ample announcement to their visit. Likewise the Chinese Communist Government does not allow the U.S. to run around the country doing unannounced spot checks of their facilities. In additions, it's not in the the U.S. State Department charter to go around the world conducting undercover investigations. To further add insult to injury, the States Departments statement on organ harvesting was published before the Kilgour Matas report... meaning State did not have the data or info before they made their statement. All of these points make the argument groundless.

As for Harry Wu... not sure I call him credible. Now Wu's conducting his own undercover investigation. Most people are wondering who Wu is anyway. Harry Wu's been all tied up with an investigations on organ harvesting since the late 1990's. He clearly understand the Chinese are engage in organ harvesting, as noted from this article when he HELPED the FBI identify illegal sales of organs from prisoners:

Harry Wu In The News
Harry contacted the FBI immediately afterwards. They arranged for Wu's original contact, Harry, and an FBI undercover agent to meet with Wang again on February 20.
Wang offered even pancreases and skin this time. He was accompanied by a Chinese citizen, Xingqui Fu, who lives in Flushing, New York. They were ready to deal. The exact details will come out in the men's trial, as the FBI arrested the two on charges of conspiring to violate the federal law against selling human organs for profit.


So now WU has changed his story... first they are harvesting organs, then not... it's
a wash, and his credibility is blown as fast as a quarter in Las Vegas.

Now compare the reputation WU to Kilgour and Matas. Or compare Wu to the 20 or so human rights watch organizations who ALSO say that China is harvesting organs from prisoners.

Just for the record Mr Kilgrou's credentials:

David Kilgour was one of the two longest-serving MPs in the House of Commons for the 38th Parliament. First elected in 1979 in the riding of Edmonton Strathcona, he has been re-elected seven times, most recently in 2004 to represent the constituents of Edmonton - Mill Woods - Beaumont. Since Confederation, only two Alberta MPs have served longer terms.
In the 38th Parliament, David was Chair of the Canada-ASEAN Inter-Parliamentary Friendship Group and the Parliamentary Prayer Breakfast; co-chair of the All-Party and Multi-Faith Committee on Religious-Cultural Harmony and the Parliamentary Friends of Tibet; and Canadian Chair of Parliamentarians for Global Action.


Now if only the reader would post on the Chinese Military threat to the U.S. Maybe he/she thinks the ASAT and Laser attacks were disproved by one of Wu's undercover investigations.

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

Please try reading the Congressional Research Service document I cited previousley:

http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf (page CRS-7)

Look, I even gave you the page number where it stated we conducted secret visit prior to the 3/21 official visit:

"American officials from theU.S. Embassy in Beijing and the U.S. consulate in Shenyang visited the area as wellas the hospital site on two occasions — the first time unannounced and the secondwith the cooperation of PRC officials"

There's Congressional brief on the credibility of David Kilgour's Falun Gong report titled "The Collateral of Suppression".

It's a report critical of China written for Senator Dianne Feinstein, member of US Congressional Executive Committee on China (CECC), where congressional researchers Emma Ashburn and Thomas Lum were quoted:

"Emma Ashburn, a research associate at the Congressional-Executive Committee on China (CECC), said that the Matas-Kilgour report really “offered nothing new” in terms of evidence on the matter of organ harvesting. The evidence they did collect, namely the phone calls and testimonies, were dubious in their objectivity.

Specialist in Asian Affairs at the Congressional Research Service, Thomas Lum, noted that the evidence could have easily been distorted. The individuals calling the hospitals were all affiliated with FLG, and Lum said that it is unlikely for doctors and officials working for the state to casually divulge such sensitive and damaging information so easily.

Moreover, Lum’s efforts to contact both the Chinese journalist and doctor’s wife have been fruitless, as FLG members direct all communications toward these individuals and they often do not respond. Harry Wu, a longtime political activist known for his hardline anti-PRC views, announced on August 9, 2006 that he would challenge the allegations made by FLG about targeted organ harvesting, especially the claim about the Sujiatun concentration camp.

About the report, the South China Morning Post reports, “Mr. Wu, who has spent 15 years gathering evidence on the harvesting of organs from executed Chinese prisoners, said the information was based on the testimony of two witnesses, neither of whom had first-hand information. He believed the reports were fabricated.” Wu had tried to follow up with the witnesses just as Lum had—to the same futility. In the face of these criticisms, including from even Wu, who formerly held friendly relations with FLG, all things considered the allegations FLG has made about a targeted campaign of state-sponsored genocide are most likely untrue."

Anonymous said...

Anonymous sounds like Bobby Fletcher who I have been exposing as a spy working for the United Fronts Propaganda Department on all Blogs where he defends anything the Chinese communist regime does.

He even has a blog which denies ever
Tiananmen Square massacre happened.Please see his site at
http://www2.blogger.com/profile/17988368193662201410

Unknown said...

Anonymous sounds like Bobby Fletcher who I have been exposing as a spy working for the United Fronts Propaganda Department on all Blogs where he defends anything the Chinese communist regime does.

He even has a blog which denies ever
Tiananmen Square massacre happened.Please see his site at
http://www2.blogger.com/profile/17988368193662201410

bobby fletcher said...

J, do you have any proof to back up your outlandish claim?

My blog on passive journalism and media's misreporting on TAM cited retrospective from Columbia School of Journalism.

Nowhere did I ever say TAM didn't happen; I must insist you are mistaken.

bobby fletcher said...

Jana Shearer, why do you hide the fact you are a Falun Gong disciple?

No spycraft needed, just a simple Google search:

http://www.google.com/search?q=Jana+Shearer+Dafa+United+Fronts

Mad Smoof said...

The thing is, organ harvesting of the Falun Gong may be true, and it may also be somewhat inflated. No one can prove anything at this point. Don't you think it's better to error on the side of caution, rather than allow a horrible crime to continue? Plus, you have a very credible witness and diplomatic reputation in Kilgour saying there is evidence to suggest they are harvesting organs from the Falun Gong. Fletcher’s argument rests on a weak suggestion that he implies from an article that actually supports Kilgour’s supposition. You wonder if Flether is having a hard time seeing clearly here. But wait; let's just look at what we know:

- China's Human Rights record is less than acceptable
- China's Human rights record and persecution of the Falun Gong is humanely criminal.
- China admits to harvesting organs from prisoners.

With these three present and factual... are the probabilities of the allegations being true greater or less?

Flether also took a multi pronged attack against the U.S. when he began posting negative propaganda that the U.S. Government (prosecutors) trumped up charges on Chi Mak and lied about the case. Yes, multi-pronged. Flether posted the same anti U.S. propaganda on more than 15 blogs, yet there was no EVIDENCE to support his claim. Fletcher also calls himself an American. Ah... yes, and when more information becomes public, detailing indictments and evidence against the Chi Mak cell, Fletcher does not retract his statements, or hate toward the U.S. Rather he simply remains silent. Not only is that un-American, it's just poor human skills. I want debate but, be truthful and honest.

In addition, and what also leads one to believe Flether is riding the propaganda wagon, no where has he addressed the aggressive threatening posture the Chinese Communist Government has taken against the U.S. (ASAT, Shooting a Laser at our Sat's, Stalking our Naval vessels with an armed sub, and intensely targeting our national security assets, DOD resources, and technology with espionage and spy operations.

Anonymous said...

"un-American". So much for truth and honesty.

Sorry I don't play McCarthyism. You obviousely don't want to be taken seriousely.

Goodluck with your blog.

Mad Smoof said...

What the? This gets more bizarre every time you post.

I'd love to have you post more....but anytime you get a little cornered you attack me personally. It’s as if you see everything as a personal attack and you and your response is immediately angry.

Look, it is un-American to push a communist agenda and to call the US government liars…with no proof. That’s both cheap and shallow. And yes, you called the U.S. and not the article liars.

Truth and honesty are what this blog is about, that's why I always support what I say with facts or leave it open with a question like "Spy Visits Cover For Action"? You took this open question as an attack too. Sheez!

I've searched to find a single post you have made that is pro-US. There are exactly ZERO. Every post, on ever topic and on every blog is anti-US. That too un-American. I asked numerous questions about other cases, events and allegations regarding the China threat. You've answered ZERO.

You’ll attack me but won’t debate me. That’s school yard tactics, and it’s also propaganda 101.

I hope you come back and have a debate, instead of an argument and baseless name calling, another propaganda tool.

Choice is yours... I know people take the blog serious. To say it's not serious is to say that every source sited is false... which means you're calling every news outlet referenced here liars. That falls short of analytical, don’t you think?

Anonymous said...

Mad Smoof, appreciate your blog, very informative, very rational...

J, read your postings, not bad yourself...

Anon, aka Bobby, aka Sunday Service, leave your lies in Mao's grave. They both stink the same.

Mad Smoof said...

Winterb4spring, thanks for the comments. Sounds like you have run into Fletcher before. Will you give us the background on that. Many people seem to bumb into this guy. I'm always interested to hear debate and, of course, another view.

Thanks again,
SMOOF